Deb Hirsch’s life and ministry hasn’t fit into compartmentalized boxes.
Her work as a pastor, missional leader, and counselor has been an immersive, full-life calling. In this reflective conversation, Deb shares the journey that shaped her, the practices that have sustained her, and the hope that she has for the church.
Lori Ruffin: Deb, tell me about your personal journey into ministry.
Deb Hirsch: To be honest, there was no, “Do I or don’t I go into ministry?” When I first encountered Jesus, my life was turned completely upside down. I fell in love. He had me, and I knew that I was going to serve Him for the rest of my life. I didn’t distinguish between “life” and “ministry” like we tend to do today. Isn’t all of our life meant to be lived in service to God? My husband loves to say that our conversion is our commissioning. I think he is right. It certainly was that way for me.
Strangely enough, though, after finding God, I landed in a little conservative church where only men were involved in “ministry.” I found this a strange oddity. I put it down to a generational thing given that the youth group were in their sixties! I had never heard labels like egalitarian or complementarian before, but despite the conservatism of this little church, the pastor, Pat, saw something in me and asked if I’d thought about going to seminary. I knew immediately this was what God wanted me to do. I didn’t think much at all about my gender and what that might mean in the context of the church.
Lori Ruffin: What was it like stepping into a pastoral role, especially given your early church context?
Deb Hirsch: I’ve always loved being a pastor. It never felt like hard work to me, especially in my earlier days. Painful yes, but I loved what I did, and you learn pretty quickly that when you are in the business of shepherding people it is costly. People are messy (aren’t we all) but what a gift and privilege!
Our first “official” ministry role was in a Church of Christ in South Melbourne, Australia. The church was in decline and most of the members were in their seventies. We were young and full of life and eager to serve God. I’m not sure what the community thought when we started as about a dozen or so of our friends (all young believers from weird and wonderful backgrounds) came with us. And the church grew! Most of us had not come from church backgrounds. So we experimented lots (and made lots of mistakes!) But God seemed to bless it all none the less. Honestly, we didn’t really know what we were doing. Our seminary training helped provide a basic theological framework but not a lot of training in real ministry contexts. I will never forget in those early ministry years when I was sitting on the curbside talking with a prostitute and thinking to myself, what was the point of learning all that ancient Greek at seminary, how does that help me now?!
While my husband was the “official” minister of the church, we knew we were there as partners and developed a ministry team in the first year. One of the things I loved was when some of the older folk referred to me as “the pastor’s wife” Al would always say, “No, actually Deb is more gifted as a pastor than me. So technically I’m the pastor’s husband.” For him language was important. We knew we were doing this as partners, so it wasn’t an issue for us. We just got on with the business of the Kingdom.
Lori Ruffin: In moments when leadership felt heavy, what sustained you?
Deb Hirsch: For me as I look back, there have been a number of things that have helped sustain me throughout the years. Three significant ones would be community, sabbath, and mentorship.
Alan and I have always lived in community. We were married for a month and then three people moved in with us. We’ve even bought homes with other people. Wherever we have been located both in the United States and Australia, we have lived our lives in community. We have been very intentional about this. Living life in this way with others has been a great gift for us. We have built some life-long friends, friends who we love and who love us. It’s essential to be known and to be loved. Those are the relationships that help sustain you through the hard times and for the long journey.
When Alan and I moved into the church manse next door, there was no real boundary between home and church. We were still young in the faith – he’d been a believer for about five years, me for four – and we were full of energy, ready to change the world. We encouraged people, “If you want to be part of the community, you need to live within 10 minutes of the church.” That created a vibrant, close-knit community, but it also meant we were in the thick of people’s lives – helping folks out of addictions, ministering to working girls, and walking with people from complex backgrounds. Our home was always full, and we loved it.
That kind of life can be beautiful, but it’s also intense. Early on, we realized we needed to create space for intentional rest. Alan’s Jewish heritage helped us embrace a weekly Sabbath. Every Sunday afternoon we drove two hours to a little holiday house that Al’s sister had near the beach. It taught us the rhythm of rest. There is no question that keeping a weekly sabbath helped sustain us. Annual silent retreats were and continue to be life giving for me.
In my early ministry years, I had the opportunity to meet regularly with a wonderful woman of God. I would literally sit at her feet. She helped me to get to know myself, and to know God. We all need people like that in our lives. A mentor, a wise one, someone a bit further down the road than us. I remember hearing James K. A. Smith saying that we all should tie ourselves to an ancient. I like that. For him it was Augustine. I think this is also important. Learn from others, learn about others. A significant person for me would be C.S. Lewis. He has probably had the biggest impact on my life and understanding of the faith.
Lori Ruffin: What has kept you tethered to Jesus all these years?
Deb Hirsch: I love the passage in John 6 where some of Jesus’ followers leave him and Jesus turns to the 12 and asks them if they will leave him too. Simon Peter answers him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.” Honestly, I feel exactly the same. Who else is like our Lord? Who else can change a person’s life in a heartbeat? My first encounter with God was so powerful that I can’t ever imagine turning away from Him. My own testimony keeps me tethered. My ongoing walk with the Lord keeps me tethered. Spiritual practices keep me tethered, anything that helps keep your walk with the Lord fresh. Like all relationships you have to keep relating, keep being in communication. Brother Lawrence’s Practicing the Presence of God book was also helpful in my early years in keeping consciousness of God in my moment-by-moment.
Another thing that has kept me tethered to Jesus is being with and among the poor. It’s never been hard for me to find Jesus among them. There is a reason why the Bible tells us to not neglect the poor. They can reveal our own poverty, they can humble us, they can break us. I’ve found the face of God there, and He has met me deeply many times.
Lori Ruffin: What advice would you give to women who are discouraged, overlooked, or hitting ceilings?
Deb Hirsch: Keep going. I know sometimes life/ministry can get hard, really hard. Look for the silver linings. Develop an orientation of hope. Remember the promises of God. Remember God sees you, even if others don’t. I’m not going to tell you that everything will be alright, sometimes it won’t. Be realistic. If you are stuck in a place where nothing is changing and you feel like all you are doing is banging your head against a brick wall, unless you are sure that God has called you to bang your head, then get out. Time is short and God has a call on your life. Trust Him. He will not let you down even if you can’t see all the pieces of the puzzle now.
Being a woman in “ministry” isn’t always easy. I went into official ministry over 30 years ago now, so things have changed considerably. I would go to pastors or leader’s conferences or cohorts and sometimes be the only woman in the room. Thankfully that is no longer the case. I know we still have a ways to go, but my encouragement is keep your eyes on Jesus and unless you are called to, do not get caught up in the fight of it all. It can easily become a distraction to the work God has called you to do.
Lori Ruffin: Faithfulness to God looks different in different seasons – what is this current season teaching you about Jesus?
Deb Hirsch: I’m currently in one of the most difficult seasons of my life. Both my parents have dementia (my dad’s is advanced) and just this week they have gone into assisted living. I have cried a lot. It has been so profoundly sad. Being faithful to God in this season means loving them, honouring them, and entrusting them into God’s hands. He has them, He knows them, even if sometimes they don’t know themselves. I read a book recently where the author suggested that when Jesus was “handed over,” His ministry shifted from one of “action” to “passion,” from “the role of doing to that of being done to,” that Jesus understands all the seasons of our lives. When we become vulnerable, dependent, when decisions are made for us, we move from the role of doing to that of being done to. Jesus understands and is right there with us. I have been reflecting a lot on this of late.
Lori Ruffin: What keeps you hopeful about the church today?
Deb Hirsch: Desmond Tutu said that hope is being able to see that there is light despite all the darkness. I like that. It’s too easy to see all that is wrong with the church and to lose hope. I like to see God’s people everywhere as little lights, each shining the light of the Christ life wherever they are, dispelling the darkness and bringing hope to this dark world. Sometimes I get to hear some of the stories of what God is up to through His people in different places in the world and that gives me hope. I am learning to focus on the good because I have learned that hope is an orientation I can choose.
“Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable — if anything is excellent or praiseworthy — think about such things.” Philippians 4:8
Deb’s story reminds us that ministry isn’t merely a role or a temporary assignment – it’s a lifelong calling. A calling rooted in Jesus, nourished through healthy spiritual and practical rhythms, shaped in community and accountability, and ultimately lived in service to the One who made the call. As she invites the church to embody the hope of Christ in a weary world, Deb’s own life stands as a living witness of what it means to give one’s whole life to Him.
